Friday, January 25, 2013

Thunderforged and the Green!

Long overdue and many broken promisises later, PTR 5.2 features green fire for Warlocks and a call from Blizz to increase the want/need to do 25 man content again. On top of that Tanks are beating on Ghostcrawler (GC) about the bad idea to stack haste and the fact that dodge/parry gear is horrible and I think Blizz is hearing the cry's from the player base that the overwhelming amount of dailies was bad, the reduction of VP after the 1st heroic 5 man.

In other words nothing new for the devs to handle but I think the later is driving the normal playbase away from the game in droves. In a quote from GC we are supposed to get the new ground breaking part of the game in an upcoming patch. (source) (source)

Bout time -  This comes from a quest line that won't be open to everyone that comes form a piece of gear it seems to be in the unknown range just how but it looks like it starts in the Black Temple.
(source) (source)

The uproar on Haste - (we all seen it coming) almost seems long overdue. This incarnation of tanking features Hit/Exp and Haste and lacked the need for dodge/parry and to a smaller extent mastery. (source) (source)
 Paladin (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator
  • For Protection, we do have plans to try and lower the value of haste relative to dodge and parry. We don't want to make haste terrible for paladins, but we agree that it's odd for it to be better than more traditional tank stats. It might require a nerf to Shield of the Righteous to do this, but our goal is not to nerf survivability overall. We just wanted to provide you some context if you see odd changes to tanking abilities.

Is there a reasoning behind this? It honestly feels like you're taking the opinions of a mysterious part of the playerbase (like the same portion who you quoted as "not liking DivPurP because it was too RNG") and changing the entire spec paradigm around it. Why push for MORE class homogenization when the game already has WAY too much?
The game just isn't currently designed to support it. It creates potential problems such as:
A Prot paladin competing with a Frost DK or Ret paladin over gear, meaning there isn't enough DPS plate to go around.
  • A Prot paladin considering a tier set with dodge and parry on it to be "garbage" because it doesn't stack all haste.
  • A Prot paladin looking at a Ret 2pc set bonus that she normally wouldn't touch because now the stats aren't that bad either.
In a world where tanking plate didn't exist or every loot system used the personal LFR one or 100% efficient reforging then it might work
We understand that having a lot of haste feels fun and visceral and is more dependable than dodge and parry. We'll try to come up with a solution that keeps that in mind

And along those lines we are now seeing the backlash of the daily grind and the loss of the once "cool" seven 5 man VP grind that was introduced mid-cata, we now the the max once a day then as Blizzard states, we can do 20 in a day but a much reduced level, almost forcing players to log on or it is, in essence a waste of time. (source) (source)
Strongly prefer 7x/wk. Can't play weekdays much, like to grind on weekends. Its was fun for me in cata
You can still do that. The runs after the first still give valor. It's not the most efficient way possible, but totally works. (Source)
Look at it this way. I got few hours per week to play & not every day. 7x/wk means I get full valor. Other not.
I can appreciate that. The current model is intended to be a compromise between folks who want long sessions vs. many sessions. (Source)
7 per week allows you both to do them on one day or on 7 days. The current implementation doesnt (without dr on vp)
But the current one lets you do 20 a week if you really want to. (Source)
you traded the one efficient way in cata for the one efficient way here. Don't pretend you're more diverse.
Disagree. The big difference in the previous two systems is after X you got *no* valor. Very hard to play other ways. (Source)
Do you honestly think players want to do 20 per week? RT But the current one lets you do 20 a week if you really wa
How many should you do a week? (As an aside, more did 1/day than 7/ week.) (Source)
it's something only HC raiders (a minority of the raiders) would say, or someone with more time than skill.
HC raiders tend to do content anyway. It's more casual raiders who drop out if rewards and prestige are lacking. (Source)
so am i right in asumming you are designing content for a slim minority and saying screw the rest of yall?
How did you get that from what I said? I said we tend to see players give up when their accomplishments are too easily outdated. (Source)
You seriously want players to have to grind 5.0 content before running 5.2?
Is it fair to players who played in 5.0 if they aren't ahead of those who did not? (I don't think we ever said "grind.") (Source)
I'd like to see the numbers/proof of this "the less hardcore raiders quit when we provide catch up stuff" crap.
You don't see it all the time? Think about those players who get lazy when a tier is near done. It's like that but more so. (Source)

And the icing on the cake of what is going on in the PTR is the new Thunderforged. Briefly we now have upwards of 6 versions of gear; LFR, normal gear, normal Thunderforged, heroic gear, and heroic Thunderforged. Blizz is doing this to give upgrades for what all of us have done, getting a chance at upgraded loot on a boss you might still be progressing on and getting a special cooking by getting Thunderforged gear. Wouldn't this had been nice pre-M'uru nerf in Sunwell? 
Just why is Blizz doing all this? They have increased Thunderforged gear drops in 25 man, a bit too late to help increase 25 man raids. Blizz in some way seems, in a mercy attempt to keep 25 mans solvent, being throwing a bone for those who want to stick with it. It is not their fault it is easier to set up a 10 man platform on a 7 year old game who's numbers of solid raiders are dropping. They are rewarding what here? Ants on a sugar cube! Really, if you make is so better loot falls, people will come, for now and then back out after the special snow flake gear is gone or acquired. A shoddy attempt if you ask me.
Coming to the PTR in the near future will be a new designation of item type in Normal and Heroic raids for non-tier pieces. Each 5.2 raid boss will have a chance of dropping this new designation of a particular item that's 6 item levels higher than their counterparts. These higher quality versions will be called "Thunderforged". This means that there will be five variations of some items. You'll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.

This new item designation is being added for a couple reasons, but first and foremost to make loot drops more interesting overall, especially after you have earlier bosses in Throne of Thunder on farm. As you're working on progression, those first few bosses can now continue to provide a chance at upgrades, making repeated kills potentially more exciting and rewarding. Those additional upgrades can then help to slowly raise power, and boost you over whatever progression roadblock you may hit.

We've also received a lot of feedback regarding 25-player raids, and have been looking for ways to address some concerns. Ever since we changed 10-player raids to drop the same item level as 25's, we've seen a steady decline in 25-player raiding. This isn't surprising. A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups. It's unfortunately easy for a 25-player guild to collapse down into a 10-player guild, but very unlikely for the opposite to happen. However, we like 25-player raiding and don't want to see it go away. Like many players, we love the epic feeling that comes with banding together more massive groups to battle powerful foes, we love that there's opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden, and we want to support the larger raiding guilds. That said, we're also concerned that over-rewarding the 25-player guilds-if, for example, we went back to a higher item level across the board for 25's, as was the case for Icecrown Citadel-would feel like a slap in the face to the many 10-player raiders out there, who are the majority of our Normal and Heroic raiders.

To attempt to navigate this minefield, we're going to try having Thunderforged items drop more frequently in 25-player raids. They'll be somewhat rare in both cases compared to the standard versions that'll drop, but they'll be even rarer in 10's. Overall, a 25-player group will be more likely to end up with a slightly higher item level after several weeks of raiding.

It's important to keep in mind that this only affects 10- and 25-player Normal and Heroic raids, and tier-15 armor pieces won't be available in Thunderforged quality at all. We're curious to hear your thoughts about these changes, and what you think once you begin seeing them on the PTR..

Til next time, thanks!

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